Visiting electives
[note: i decided to change this post's title because i noticed it is the THIRD post titled *SIGH* in as many months. time to stop sighing already, Jen!]
from the UBC Clinical Clerkship Electives for Visiting Students webpage:
“Student must be attending an accredited medical school in the United States, or an approved medical school in the UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand or South Africa. We will not accept Canadian citizens attending medical school in a country not listed above.”
(their emphasis)
i knew i would be stuck in the USA for all of my core and elective rotations. it just sorta sucks to know that programs like this Visiting Students thing exist and explicitly exclude us. as in, we can’t even try to apply.
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December 17th, 2007 at 9:30 am
You can get stuck at the MUSC in Charleston ,SC..Similar weather to Nevis !!
December 17th, 2007 at 9:47 am
Well, you may just save yourself a big headache not doing electives at UBC. Their electives office is famously disorganized and people get turned down or electives at the last minute all the time. You send in your application and then a month before your elective they spring it on you whether you’ve got it or not. Then all of us who don’t live in BC have to scramble around trying to get flights. Apparently it’s because they don’t have enough spots for their own students. I don’t know what it is. Oh, and they take your money :)
December 17th, 2007 at 1:00 pm
sigh … sucky …
December 17th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
That’s disappointing i’m sure, but not unexpected. I wonder what their logic is
December 17th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
I am sure you have done research, so do you have any ideas as to why Caribbean med students frequently face these problems?
December 17th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
Jane – haha!
Medstudentitis – appreciate you providing a bit of perspective. thank you. : )
Sarah – always a reason for everything, right? but who knows whether that reason is “legitimate” or is just based on the reputation we’re working our butts off to beat.
Nicole – why single out Caribbean med students? what about the students in India, Russia, Japan, China, and pretty much all of Europe?
December 17th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
hey!
is it just bc youre looking for?
i know a few friends who did some rotations in toronto if that helps!
have a good break! :)
December 17th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
Ok, then why do you think people who go to these schools, including schools in Europe, have this problem?
You frequently give props to your school, which is great. But lets be real, Caribbean med schools (international as well?) have a “bad rep”.
If the board scores are so great, and you believe you have to work just as hard academically, why do YOU think there is a problem with the way the schools in the US and BC view your education?
I am seriously interested, I wish you would address this!
December 17th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
I don’t think educational equivalence is the issue. If you want to argue that a foreign education is somehow not as good, you’d have to back it up with stats showing that doctors in those other countries aren’t as competent, make more mistakes, increase the death rate of patients, etc. I find it hard to believe that a German doctor, for example, is any less knowledgable than an American doctor. I think the difference comes from standardizing HOW the doctors are taught. For example, North American doctors are probably more likely to learn their skills on the latest medical equipment, whereas Indian doctors might not have that luxury. I don’t think that makes the American doctor better, it just makes him more knowledgable about North American equipment. In the case of International Med students applying to Canadian schools…it could be an issue of them just not being familiar with the “canadian way” of doing things, and are therefore not as desirable as students in a hospital.
Just my 2 cents anyway…I really don’t know anything.
December 17th, 2007 at 7:53 pm
Sarah, that is a good point!! I am just curious the perspective Jenn has having to deal with immersing into the system as a Canadian, and as a medical student gaining education at a Caribbean school.
December 17th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
It’s very interesting. In Australia, all Overseas Trained Doctors (IMGs) have been treated equal up until now. They have just introduced a new policy (it has only been applied to one state ATM) for doctors trained in the US, UK, Canada, and NZ with one to two years post grad training (2 years for US, one for the others). This is due to the fact that these medical systems are so similar.
Statistically, what I have been told is that IMGs that have been trained using the UK-based system (which is what we use in Australia and the other UK colonies – ie NZ, SA) are more likely to pass our AMC boards. And that doesn’t include the US, but I guess that’s why the 2 year thingy. That UK-style training can be found outside of the big countries too.
I think it comes down to the ability to intergrate into a system, not whether one is better than the other. And, unfortunately, it seems UBC is having difficulties accepting the fact that good med students come out of other places rather the the ones listed. It comes down to accreditation and the confidence in the schools from abroad. It doesn’t make it right. And if I really wanted to be cynical, I could make a comment on the huge dollars in medical education and these big governments not wanting to endorse alternatives…. but I wont…..
Jen, that does suck, and I will be facing similar challenges when I go IMG.
But, you will get a great experience somewhere else! You will be glad.
Road less travelled…..
Good luck.
December 18th, 2007 at 7:24 am
thuc – yeah, just interested in BC. Toronto is the same as eastern US for me. :)
Nicole – as soon as i sit down with the director of UBC’s rotation program and find out first hand why they exclude Caribbean-trained students from their elective rotations, i’ll let you know. : )
other than that, i’m not sure what i’m failing to address here… i’m a Canadian paying for education outside of Canada that i want to use IN Canada. i’m posting things that i learn as i learn them first hand, instead of speculating about “reputations”. reputations mean (pretty much/almost/next to) nothing to me. i’m not like other students and i don’t expect to succeed or fail in the same way other students have. why would i be down here in the first place if i put a lot of credit in reputations?
do you need to hear me say (type) that i admit Caribbean med schools have a bad reputation? yes, they do.
are most bad reputations earned? yes, they are.
is it extremely difficult to change once you have earned a particular reputation? yes, it is.
if i’m still failing to address something, please ask me specific questions and i will give you specific answers. if it seems like i’m ignoring or neglecting to fully answer your (past or present) comments, it’s probably because you seem more interested in finding proof for your personal (mis?)conceptions than actually looking for genuine information.
by the way, are you familiar with the student from Grenada that transferred to Drexel in his 3rd year? even your school was able to get over the Caribbean “bad rep”. : ))
December 18th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
so, um… did you ask them why you’re excluded if the school you’re at is recognized? cc your MP at the same time, see what shakes out :)
December 19th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
Hum, with the exception of the US they are all countries that are in the Commonwealth. Interesting that they left out India and the West Indies. Perhaps they don’t want to take the time to accredit the schools or don’t trust the accreditation in the other countries.
February 25th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Is it really difficult to obtain a residency spot coming from a caribbean medical instituition?